Hey guys!
This thread is for players to discuss Soul Calibur 4 matches that they have seen online. This means that if you wish to clarify things you don't understand in a video, or just want to evaluate the choices made in the match, you can post up here. Recommendations and positive comments are encouraged.
If you do not understand any of the terminology used in the discussion, please direct your questions here:
http://forums.round1.sg/index.php?topic=26.0Video sources and players that i recommend watching are:
The Koreans:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheKura0611Players to look out for: UFO (voldo), ChaosCube (Setsuka), Kura (Kilik/Nightmare/Talim).
Korean players have aggressive styles in whichever game they play. In SC they are proficient at staying at a good distance from the opponent while applying highly effective pressure. Not to mention, they have excellent execution and knowledge.
The French:
http://www.youtube.com/user/soularchivefrhttp://www.youtube.com/user/GnouzCorpPlayers to look out for: DTN (Siegfried), Keev (Nightmare), Kayane (Xianghua), Cdric (Cass, Mitsu), Dina (Sophie, Cass), Saitoh (Astaroth), Hayate (Kilik), Yota (Yunsung), Humphrey (Lizardman).
The french have many players and they are of a very good standard; they play effectively at a high level with interesting setups. Personally, I am very impressed by the knowledge of their matchups. Their hardwork and cooperation has advanced their standard of play rapidly in the SC4 era. They update their videos regularly, so you get to see new strategies often.
Hong Kong:
http://www.youtube.com/user/lks9413Players to look out for: LAU (nightmare), Chang's Friend (Setsuka), Knightspirit (Mitsurugi).
Hong Kong has LAU and Chang's Friends as their top players. Both are of a very high calibre. LAU, having played in many countries, is a very experienced player. He plays a very dynamic nightmare. Chang's Friend is a wicked Setsuka player. His execution is just whack; if you take a look at the rest of his characters and their crazy just frames you'd get what i mean. Knightspirit has improved tremendously since i last played him. I actually enjoy watching his matches because he comes up with a lot of nice anti-character strategies and setups for Mitsurugi. Hong Kong matches are entertaining to casual and competitive players.
California:
http://www.youtube.com/user/offlinesemiPlayers to look out for: Aris (Cassandra, Siegfried), Vicioussuicide (Lizardman), Alex J. (Amy), Hates (Cervantes), Motempest/Linc (Taki), Spman (Cervantes), King Salmon (Mitsurugi)
Personally, I find American matches boring to watch. However, their style is very effective. Its clean, clear and gets the job done. They don't need to go for the most damaging option, or the coolest looking set up, they just need options that are consistent and help to preserve their initiative. They are just plain solid. Motempest's Taki is pretty flashy though.
Singapore:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ReignRiihttp://www.youtube.com/user/ikillbutterflieshttp://www.youtube.com/user/MSLlednarhttp://www.youtube.com/user/Aheda86Players to look out for: Shen Rii (Nightmare), Shen Yuan (Xianghua/Hilde/Siegfried), Shen Ou (Kilik), Shen Chan (Yun seong, Talim, Mitsurugi), Taxi (Amy).
Singapore has very few but very fine players. I am very sure that our top players here do not pale in comparison to the greats mentioned above. We'll be putting more videos of our players up soon. For now, try to watch the Shen Rii vs Shen Ou first to ten that is being released match by match. It is very recent and entertaining.
Some general guidelines about watching videos:
1. Look at the date of the video. The more recent it is, the more relevant the strategy is. People play very differently as time passes and their gameplan develops.
2. A video is just a video. A player's performance in a certain match video does not clearly indicate how good he/she really is. Like you can't say LAU's nightmare is worse than Keev's/Your's/Whoever's by just looking at a video. None of the parties have played each other before. So yes, don't let a video paint a picture of the strength of a player. Learn from them in an objective manner.
3. It is very dangerous to take a strategy from a top player like its law. It has the effect of painting a definite picture of how a character is played. Players who do this might get discouraged by thinking that character X must be played in X way, where X way is unattractive to the player. This will cause the player to drop character X and eliminate all possibilities of developing a different and yet effective gameplan.
Post Merge: March 05, 2009, 06:00:35 AM
I'll do up a review on a recent soul singapore match between Shen Ou and Shen Rii. I hope that the review, which shows how I look at and learn from match videos, will help new players learn how to look at them objectively as well. I'd like to add that the way i view matches is not the one and only way to view them. It works for me, but i don't think it would work for everyone; I tend to overthink. So please don't be afraid to look at match videos in a different way; the key is to learn something useful from them in the most effective way possible.
Shen Rii (Nightmare) vs Shen Ou (Kilik) Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH2PjXvSOzMI'll only review Ou's choices for now.
Some contextual knowledge: Nightmare excels in close and far range combat in the Kilik matchup. He has decent tools for mid range, but kilik owns him in this respect.
Ou:
In the first round, Kilik does a 2A+K as Rii backsteps and it lands on a sidestep counter hit. I am pretty sure that Rii wanted to backdash into far range and then 8wayrun in the 3 direction to bait for a whiff from Kilik to move in to start pressure. Its a pretty good idea actually, because 33B is a stupid whiff punisher from far range. Not to mention, the distance between the two characters in the beginning of the round makeup for nightmare's poor backdash, and hence allows him to move into far range a lot quicker. Also, very few of kilik's moves reach THAT far. So what Kilik needs is a very long range horizontal attack to hit nightmare. Guess what? Kilik has one! Its called 2A+K. Kilik's 2A+K is a terrific answer to nightmare's game at far range. Kilik 2A+K catches step and it has excellent range. Because of these two properties, Ou managed to counter hit Rii as Rii's nightmare 8-way ran sideways, as he baited for a whiff. Even if Rii knew a 2A+K was coming, and guarded it, nightmare cannot punish kilik at that range. His best answer would be to jump it on anticipation. As such, i really like Ou's decision to throw out a 2A+K at the beginning of the round.
At 0:40 Kilik did a 3A. Ou managed to land it near its tip, while Kilik was at far range. Personally, I don't think that was a good option. I think 3A is a decent move for this matchup, but not at far range. Being at far range gives nightmare a lot of confidence to attempt a 33B to whiff punish. Actually Rii was ABOUT to go for a 33B punish. If not for the mistake in his execution, the 33B would have landed. What mistake? Rii tapped the B in 33B too early, causing the 3A to track and hit him, even though he stepped to the correct side. In SC4, if you step a slow attack, try to make sure that you have completely stepped it before you go for a punish. If you step and attack before hit activation of a slow attack occurs, the slow attack would track and hit you the moment you key in an input (Yes even Guard), regardless of how much you stepped it to its weak side. Personally, i felt that Ou's should have moved into 2A/22A range which is more favourable.
0:44 is what can probably happen a lot if you try to poke nightmare at mid-far range
At 0:49, im very interested in what went through Ou's train of thought after eating NSSA, that caused him to do an Asura.. which worked. I find it very queer, especially when NSSK/bA could have been guaranteed.
0:51-0:54, I like the way Ou Asura's after a throw whiffs. It makes failed throw punishments so dangerous against Kilik. Basically this means that if the opponent is late on the punishement and fails to land a free hit after ducking a throw, the opponent stands a very high chance of eating an Asura, which has a high chance of auto-GIing the late punisher. Not to mention, most punishers are middle attacks. BUT in the case of Nightmare, i think its a pretty risky idea because nightmare's consistent and best throw punisher is while standing B. Asura does not auto-GI kick class attacks like nightmare's while standing B. So if Nightmare was late in his WSB, Asura will get counter hit and kilik will eat big damage. However, Rii decided to go for a throw punish, which is not so bad an idea, because in that situation a B throw could have led to a wall splat which still leads to massive damage.
After the 2A hit at 1:14, Kilik did 46B. Nightmare blocked it. At this juncture, what should kilik have done if he knew that Nightmare was going to block. There are 3 meaty options in my opinion. First of all Kilik could have stepped backwards a BIT to move into the tip of 2A's range, where Kilik is really good at against Nightmare. Secondly, Kilik could have stepped forward to play a MO (236) game. Thirdly, Kilik could have thrown in a setup (3kB spacing, 4K string variance). Im sure Ou knew about these options, but I am raising this up to let newer players be aware of the dynamic of the mindgame in that situation.
(TO BE CONTINUED. ITS 6AM. I NEED SLEEP)
I highly recommend that players put up their thoughts and feelings about matches and also evaluate the opinions of other players about other matches as well. Even if the input seems too simplistic or inaccurate, the thoughts of other players can help correct and add depth to it. This way, a player's learning processes and understanding of the game can be improved immeasurably.
